fels rechteckbeil..(holland)

Begonnen von kees, 03. August 2008, 20:46:24

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kees

this is an axe that we found in februari this year..
in my books this is an fels rechteckbeil and the period is middle bis young neolithicum..
the stone it self is from danmark but probebly made in holland..personly i believe it's an item they give along with a person who died..
the axe is small..very small..how small??

72 mm long
38 mm wide
18 mm thick

the axe is polisshed,sharpened and in perfect shape..

i hope you like the pictures  :super:




Silex

Wundervolles Teil, Kees!

Aber das Material ist wohl  geschliffener Flint...oder?
Die Hoffnung trübt das Urteil, aber sie stärkt die Ausdauer.

FeliXxX

@ silex: i think we must speak english with him  :zwinker:

felix  :zwinker:

Khamsin

Salaam!

Kees, good to have a member of our Dutch brethren with us in the Forum. Concerning what you´ve termed "Fels Rechteckbeil", meaning an axe blade of rock with a rectangular section, you should note that our member "Silex" stated that the material is, in fact, not rock, but flint. I can only confirm this, and it seems that it is a typical "Baltic flint", the colour of which has been altered from original grey to its present colour due to chemical action, i.e. patination. So, without knowing where you found the axe blade, I would not wonder if it was not in a dry but more humic to wet environment like a valley, or a bog.

Come back any time and let´s see your finds. Greetings KIS
"For an impossible situation - choose a crazy remedy!"

Silex

Danke felix für den Hinweis...aber ich glaube Kees will und wird lernen...
or am I totally wrong, my dear Kees? There will be no problems in our  communication. There are possibilties in the  net to translate special terms of classification  and further we will  help each other and  spread our knowledge to improve  in understanding....both in language and  knowhow of ancient  artefacts.
Its a hard way to find out.... our capacity to "success" in this issue  is  AUSDAUER (badly translated with "continuity")
Here  is a unique FORUM to "waste" a lot of  time  with very different characters from different regions in europe and we have the chance to see and read and learn.
Die Hoffnung trübt das Urteil, aber sie stärkt die Ausdauer.

kees

i'm not sure what the material is but im sure that it's not flint..flint is another name for silex i believe?
and yes,i'am here also to learn deutsch.. :super:
next saturday i visit the museum to show some other items and to determinate them..i take his item whit me so i can tell you more of this item




rolfpeter

Servus Kees,
das Stück ist aber garantiert aus Feuerstein (Vuursteen)! Ich stimme Khamsin zu, es handelt sich bei dem Material um patinierten Baltischen Feuerstein.
HG
RP
Der Irrtum strömt, die Wahrheit sickert

Der Wikinger


Ich stimme 100% zu, kein Zeifel, dass das Feuerstein ist !!

Wäre denn Rijkholt-flint auszuschliessen ??  :kopfkratz:

:winke:

rolfpeter

Nein, das ist kein Rijckholt-Feuerstein, es ist auch kein anderer "westischer" Flint, also Feuerstein aus der Maastricher Oberkreide. Ich tippe auf Baltisch. lekker patiniert!
HG
RP
Der Irrtum strömt, die Wahrheit sickert

kees

rijckholt is not an option..i have many stones from rijckholt and how strange it might be..they also sound different  :-D
altough,this could be a piece of baltic..i let you know what the dutch argeologics say about the stone,where it came from etc.
they told me before what it was but there were more than 100 people watching and holding the stone,so i didn't hear the most of it  :narr:
i let you know what it is..there is also a fossile in the stone..maybe it says something about the kind of stone  :kopfkratz:
i really want to believe you guys an say its silex,but when i hold it in my hands i really can't go for that..but that doesn't mean it's really not silex..
i lett you know what it is when i'm back from the stoneage museum  :zwinker:
i wanna know i wanna know  :narr:

Der Wikinger


Ja, ja .. es kann ja baltisch sein, ich weiss.  :prost:

Kees in your first posting you write, the stone is from Denmark ??
How do you know ?
There are no other stones, other than Flint, in Denmark looking like that.  :belehr:

Your archaeologist will tell you that it is Flint !!  :super: :winke:

kees

he told me that the stone was probely from danmark..that's the only thing i remember..it's just that it don'feel like a peace of flint and doesn't look like it for as far as i know..
but like i said..it can be a piece of baltische flint..you guys are more experiencend in different types of flint than me,so with stones like this i can only guess.. let you know what the man thinks it is..and i think he's gonna tell me the same you guys do.. :super:

Khamsin

Salaam!

Kees, it would be helpful to know which Province you live in. Additionally helpful: the mentioned museum´s as well as archaeologist´s name. You should know that, at least according to my knowledge, there are rather few Dutch archaeologists who care for stones. Concerning all technological questions relating to stone, the two most famous ones are Dr. Dick Stapert, Groningen Institute of Archaeology, and Dr. Jaap Beuker, Drents Museum in Assen. Especially the latter has published several booklets and articles on flint-technology. Last but not least there is Dick´s wife Lykke Johansen, a Dane, who is a very experienced use-wear analytician. I´m always eager to learn about other Dutch archaeologists who are "stone crazy".

(Kees, es wäre gut zu wissen in welcher Provinz Du lebst und den Namen des Museums und jenes Archäologen zu kennen. Nach meiner Kenntnis gibt es nämlich in den Niederlanden nur sehr wenige Archäologen, die sich für Steine interessieren. Die beiden bekanntesten sind Dr. Dick Stapert von der Universität Groningen und Jaap Beuker vom Museum in Assen/Provinz Drenthe. Schliesslich ist Dicks dänische Frau Lykke Johansen eine erfahrene Gebrauchsspurenanalytikerin. Ich bin immer bestrebt, neues über andere niederländische Archäologen zu hören, die sich mit Steinen befassen.)

Thanks in advance and cordial regards KIS
"For an impossible situation - choose a crazy remedy!"

kees

#13
hallo khamsin,
i live in the northern part of holland..friesland..the people i visit mostly to show my items are Evert Kramer from the friesmuseum in Leeuwarden..E. Kramer is a specialist in paleoliticum..
the second person is Lammert Postma from the ijstijdmuseum in Buitenpost..
also Jaap Beuker is a person who we speak now and than and also helps us with some artefacts we have recently found..
Dick Stapert is a person wich i don't trust..to hard for me to explain in englisch..
also we have Klaas Henstra who know my father very well..and my father is amateur archeolig for about 30 years..

Khamsin

Salaam!

Thanks Kees, great, and interesting, information!

Best regards KIS
"For an impossible situation - choose a crazy remedy!"

kees


kees

i promised to let you know what the expert said about the axe,so here it is..
the material is indeed flint..but..this expert told me the stone is probably from france  :kopfkratz:
so the first man told me believed the stone was from danmark,and the second says france  :narr:
i don't know what to think now,but i'm glad to hear it is made from flint.. :super:

Silex

to give a genuine rawmaterial origin is not easy, kees,
its far more difficultier to do this by  a photography and it is nearly impossible   if the pictures are not very good.
Despite all this problems we tried to give you some hints  ....
hopefully waiting for further exciting findings
Die Hoffnung trübt das Urteil, aber sie stärkt die Ausdauer.

kees

it's always hard to to give a solid conclusion by a photo..ik know..but thanks for the help and hints  :super:
i have many more nice items to show,including a nice neolithic (blad) spitsi found a few months ago.. :-D

RayRedditch

Zeer mooie vondst Kees, ik kijk graag naar zo´en ouder steen bijl, maar hier is er niet zo veel te vinden.
Groetjes Ray  :super:

kees

ik weet niet waar je ongeveer woont,aar in principe zouden ze overal te vinden moeten zijn waar mensen gewoond hebben in die tijd voor de romeinen..maar net zoals hier liggen ze waarschijnlijk niet voor het oprapen..helaas  :besorgt: